July 2009

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31  

About this site

  • Comments
    When you submit a comment, it won't be published until approved. This is to cut down on comment spam. However, I will also edit or block comments that are profane or offensive.
  • E-mail
    Feel free to e-mail me at tung-yin(at)uiowa(dot)edu.
  • No Legal Advice
    Although I may from time to time discuss legal issues on this blog, nothing that I post should be construed as legal advice, nor as creating an attorney-client relationship between you and me. In fact, there's a good chance I'm not licensed to practice law wherever you are. If you need legal advice, you should consult an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction.
  • Personal View
    This blog is neither affiliated with my employer nor hosted by it. It is maintained through TypePad, and I pay the hosting fees. Nothing that is posted here should be construed as anything other than the views of the particular author of the post.
  • Tung Yin's Recent Papers (SSRN)

Polls

Photo Albums

Blog powered by TypePad

Iowa City Weather

  • The WeatherPixie

« Framing a guilty President? | Main | NBC's "The Apprentice 2": Wave bye-bye to he who waives »

September 17, 2004

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834522c6369e200d83432f07953ef

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Iraq? Who's fault?:

Comments

Unfortunately, the misleading headline above may lead people to draw only the one conclusion, and not the other.

I don't think the whether there were WMD's vel non was really the issue. The issue was whether Bush used WMD's as a pretext to invade Iraq.

But I agree with the author's conclusion and always disagreed with the "Let the weapons inspectors inspect" crowd. What did we think Hussein would do once UN inspectors left? Probably the same thing Ashcroft would do if courts stopped enforcing the Constitution.

Then again, would it not have been simpler to have U.S. or UN soldiers serve as in-house inspectors rather than to install an occupying army?

"The issue was whether Bush used WMD's as a pretext to invade Iraq."

This issue (if accurate) also includes Sen. John Kerry's pretext to invade Iraq.

"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement ...even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act." - Sen. John Kerry, Op-Ed The New York Times 9/6/02 (Sen. John Kerry, Op-Ed, "We Still Have A Choice On Iraq," The New York Times, 9/6/02)

I would argue that the real issue is whether or not pre-emption is (or was at the time) an internationally recognized cause of war. The Bush administration stated on p. 15 of their 2002 National Security Strategy (among other supporting quotes) that "We cannot let our enemies strike first." Right or wrong as this approach may be, it is one that had always been supported by Pres. Bush, and on different occasions supported by Sen. Kerry:

"In Hindsight, Kerry Says He'd Still Vote for War"
"Challenged by President, Democrat Spells Out Stance"

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 10, 2004; Page A01

GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK, Ariz., Aug. 9 -- Responding to President Bush's challenge to clarify his position, Sen. John F. Kerry said Monday that he still would have voted to authorize the war in Iraq even if he had known then that U.S. and allied forces would not find weapons of mass destruction.

I would argue that the real issue is whether or not pre-emption is (or was at the time) an internationally recognized cause of war.

LM, as an initial matter, I don't care what Kerry said. I'm voting for Mickey Mouse. At any rate, I do see your point. Pre-emption was a valid cause to go to war because, like in the movie "Red Dawn," Iraqi paratroopers were planning to storm down on America. We had to strike our enemies [Iraqis] before they struck us [Americans on American soil.]

The nuance that Kerry's been trying to bring across (and that's failing to get across either through his own failings or through the failure of the media to report it) is that while he would have voted to authorize use of force in any event (for leverage purposes in getting weapons inspectors back in and getting to a peaceful resolution) he did not support exercising that authorization, at least in the way it was done.

That (to me) is a far more nuanced and realistic understanding than "war is bad! war is bad!'

Big difference between pre-emption (our government's pretext for invading Iraq in 2003 and Israel's bombing of Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981), anticipatory self defense (the Six Day War), and self defense ("Red Dawn").

Whereas the latter two are recognized by the U.N. Charters Chapter VII, the first is not (intentionally or otherwise). The issue is debatable though, especially given the Security Council's resolution 1441 in November 2002.

I'll debate for pre-emption, but not against sarcasm devoid of arguments.

The nuance that Kerry's been trying to bring across (and that's failing to get across either through his own failings or through the failure of the media to report it) is that while he would have voted to authorize use of force in any event (for leverage purposes in getting weapons inspectors back in and getting to a peaceful resolution) he did not support exercising that authorization, at least in the way it was done.

Matt, I think that's a fair point. The problem is that, while it may not excuse President Bush's decision to invade, it assumes that Bush misused the leverage when he had another option open; however, as far as I can recall, the only option open was to accept the flawed inspection process in place. And at the time, Saddam was clearly obstructing the inspections -- Hans Blix tried very hard not to say so clearly, using terms like "cooperation in procedure, though not in substance" -- so the threat, to be meaningful, would have had to been carried out at some point.

At some level, it really mattered a lot less what the U.S. did or threatened, compared to what Saddam's business buddies (the French and Russians) did or threatened. Had they told him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't accept full, unfettered inspections, Walzer argues persuasively, Saddam may have backed down. But without that threat from France and Russia, Saddam apparently felt he wouldn't be attacked.

In any event, if we are just talking about the political campaign, I think that's a useful explanation of Kerry's position. But if we are talking about international geopolitics, I don't really see that Kerry's position is a stable one -- by that, I mean he would have had to either attack Iraq because Saddam was not cooperating (carrying out the threat) or join with France et al. in standing for weak, sham inspections that would end at some point and allow Saddam to begin reconstituting his WMD programs. In other words, it explains Kerry's vote but not his position, if that makes sense.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment